In this episode, Nate asks Grace Crosby, NewCity's jack of all trades Ministry Assistant, about her upcoming trip with Freedom424 to Thailand. Her group is heading there to connect with Beginnings Foundation, which works to rescue girls from human trafficking. Grace explains her heart for missions, and then the details and logistics for this particular trip and what they hope it is able to accomplish.
The Beginnings Foundation in Thailand leverages basic life skills education to provide alternatives to trafficking victims. They run cooking and sewing schools for the girls, equipping them with new skills and a renewed sense of hope. But the path to recovery isn't straightforward; these girls face daunting challenges such as potential threats within Thailand's public school system and a bleak environment trapping them in this vicious cycle.
You can learn more about Grace's trip here.
In this episode, Nate asks Grace Crosby, NewCity's jack of all trades Ministry Assistant, about her upcoming trip with Freedom424 to Thailand. Her group is heading there to connect with Beginnings Foundation, which works to rescue girls from human trafficking. Grace explains her heart for missions, and then the details and logistics for this particular trip and what they hope it is able to accomplish.
The Beginnings Foundation in Thailand leverages basic life skills education to provide alternatives to trafficking victims. They run cooking and sewing schools for the girls, equipping them with new skills and a renewed sense of hope. But the path to recovery isn't straightforward; these girls face daunting challenges such as potential threats within Thailand's public school system and a bleak environment trapping them in this vicious cycle.
You can learn more about Grace's trip here.
Alright, well, grace, can you believe it's already November.
Speaker 2:I don't want to think about it. I came too quick.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I was going to say, at least it felt like November today.
Speaker 2:Yes, very true.
Speaker 1:You had the forethought to think, oh, for staff, pre-day and lunch, we need something savory and something. You could have gone the chilly direction, but you didn't. You went.
Speaker 2:I went the chicken pot pie route but, instead of a pie crust, I made buttermilk biscuits.
Speaker 1:There we go.
Speaker 2:Yep.
Speaker 1:We're just trying to make everyone jealous because they weren't here. Well, some people probably listen to this would have been here, but in general they did not get deconstructed chicken pot pie on the first cool. I guess it was the first cool day of the season.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I would say that it dipped a little bit. It dipped last night, but it carried on into today, which I was very thankful for.
Speaker 1:Yeah, Now, as much as I would love to make this a weather podcast and we just talk about all things weather, you could talk about some of your experiences up north. We could talk about what winter might be like in Florida. That's not why we're here today. We're here because it is November and you are going on a trip later this month to Thailand.
Speaker 2:Yep, we're going to Pattaya Thailand, with Freedom 424 again on another outreach trip.
Speaker 1:Okay, now people might remember our podcast from what is it? August, probably. We talked about your trip to Uganda, and so, instead of jumping back to that, we gave some context for the Thailand type of trip, because you've been on this particular trip before, right?
Speaker 2:Yes, so four I mean not literally this trip, but-. Yeah, four years ago, before the pandemic hit, I went on my first outreach trip with Freedom 424 to Thailand, and we're actually going to the same city. I think you say it. You pronounce it as Pattaya.
Speaker 1:Okay, Well, you can confirm when you get back if you need to. For you know, just, you'll have been in the language for a little while, but maybe what we could do let's talk about a little bit. Clearly, you go on more than one mission trip a year. Clearly, you like to go on mission trips. That's not an abnormal thing. But maybe you speak to what's the heart behind your desire to go on these trips.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, my heart and desire is to. Originally it was to start out of just kind of educating myself. I had been a financial campaigner and I'm a consistent financial partner with Freedom 424. And so the initial start of the trips was just going and actually having the opportunity of going, seeing the funds that I'm contributing and seeing how they're being utilized and that they're being utilized well, being steward well, that kind of thing.
Speaker 2:And so actually going overseas, seeing how differently human trafficking looks in each country, just kind of sparked in me of there is a need for kind of seasoned attendees to go along with those who are new, along with the leaders, so kind of like I see this as an opportunity of not just being kind of doing a follow up visit to Thailand and seeing how things have looked or how things have changed since the pandemic, but also to kind of be an encouragement to those who are brand new going, because I remember going and being like emotionally wrecked in a sense because it's very heartbreaking to see people still in what is now modern day slavery.
Speaker 1:Yeah, because it takes it. It's for, I think, a lot of us here in the Western world it's just a theoretical thing, like yeah, in theory that sort of thing is happening, but it's not like I see it face to face or live in it or have to sit with people who are enduring it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and I think it also gets painted in the media very differently, like it feels very far off. So if you're not seeing, you know all you're doing is hearing about it. You have certain assumptions just based on whatever that news media story is.
Speaker 2:So, when people hear about, you know in terms of human trafficking, people being like kidnapped in vans, that does happen. So when you go to somewhere like Thailand, it's against the law. But at the same time, they've found loopholes for these people to still be in modern day slavery and how, in some form like government kind of turns a blind eye to it. And these men, women and children actually are either sold into it or they go freely because of their financial circumstances. So that's another thing.
Speaker 2:Like it's not always just like you're getting kidnapped, it's you are voluntarily entering into it as a job at times.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's probably important for people to realize that it could be both and, in the level of government collusion, would probably blow some people's minds to actually think about it being that being the reality over there. So that you're going on this trip to Thailand. What are kind of some things like you mentioned a few moments ago. You've been before, so it's not this is not going to be your first time seeing it again. What are some of the maybe hopes, expectations, things you want to accomplish on this trip?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think one of the things that I want most of is my heart posture when I go overseas and my first initial reaction when I went four years ago and I saw the amount of tourists that would go to kind of gawk at the human trafficking Like there's a particular place called Walking Street where it's just lined with bars and these girls are explicitly dressed and they're basically out looking for customers and trying to bring people in to provide sexual services.
Speaker 2:And you would see, not just like men. You would see elderly couples. I saw a dad with his two year old son, and so for me, my heart posture is it's like I don't want to just go in and feel what I felt then of like anger, like sensing injustice and this desire to fix it, but then be able to look at those people that are going to Thailand for like either amusement or whatever ulterior motives that they have and actually go. I need to pray for these people. Jesus loves them, jesus has forgiven them of their sins and actually not just going there to minister to the girls that we're going to be ministering to in Thailand, but also going like there's a ministry there of you know, to these people who are either bound to sexual immorality or they just go to just kind of gawk and think it has no harm whatsoever, but then, in a strange way, they are still exploiting those still in modern day slavery.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:And so I want my heart posture to change and not be one of just anger and frustration.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, it's what you were describing there. It sounds kind of like what I think of with Amsterdam and like the, the red light district, which now can mean it not just places in Amsterdam. It's like there's a part of a lot of people. Maybe it's like, well, if I were in, if I were visiting there for other reasons, I would still go. I don't, I don't know the people would actually say this. Maybe people listening to our podcast wouldn't say this, but I can imagine someone being like oh, I'm here, I should check this out. It's infamous, so to speak. But that's as you're saying. That's actually contributing to the problem, because it's turning it into a tourist attraction for people that are not necessarily there to exploit the people but are still drawing attention to it, making light of it, making it seem like it's just an amusement and that sort of thing.
Speaker 2:Absolutely yeah, and I think for me it's also kind of going what further. Another thing is seeing what for the support do they need? The Christians that we meet and work with over in Thailand, their biggest need is it's like we don't need more Western people coming over and doing ministry. We actually know how to do the ministry.
Speaker 2:We are the ones that are most well equipped in kind of reaching our own, you know, and so hearing, okay, is it more financial needs, is it more resources? And so that's like. Another part is seeing, like what are the additional needs? Because last we went they had finished building their cooking school and like their sewing school. So that was like a big need for them to actually develop a trade school for the girls that they were rescuing, so that they could train them in a trade and that way they didn't have to go back to a life of being trafficked or voluntarily trafficking themselves.
Speaker 1:So let's talk about some of the logistics a little bit. I don't want people to. I guess it wouldn't be eyes that glaze over, it would be ears that, like ears, don't glaze over we're just talking about some of the logistics. I know when we talked about your time in Uganda, you were working with Christine's house, which was a ministry over there. What's the ministry that's in Thailand that you all are connecting with?
Speaker 2:Yeah, so we're working with New Beginnings Foundation, so they're acknowledged as a nonprofit with the Thai government. But one of the key things that, what Freedom 424 brings in terms of working with them, is when you're looking to give funds, freedom 424 is a 501c3. So, again, like they're able to reach more people versus like people kind of looking up New Beginnings and like going. Okay, like is this?
Speaker 1:So Freedom 424 is the ministry over here in America that's then sending people over there. They're connecting with New Beginnings when they get there. Yes, the ministry there, so it's not it's not quite the same to say that Freedom 424 is over there, they're just they're sort of pulling everything together so that you guys can go.
Speaker 2:Exactly, yeah, they're providing resources.
Speaker 2:They're also ensuring that any financial funds that come in they're hearing from Beginnings Foundation about what their great financial needs are and so like they'll do financial campaigns or specific donors will say I am specifically desiring my funds to go to Beginnings Foundation and things like that. So we'll be working with them. They've got two locations, one in Bangkok, one in Pattaya, and then I think they also have partnered with a dental school up in Chiang Mai. So they have a big vision of just kind of expanding slowly but surely pandemic put a stop to a lot of projects, but it's been amazing to see them keep going.
Speaker 2:Girls are able to go to the cooking school, the sewing school that I mentioned, and then all of the girls are able to receive education through them. So they go to, the girls all go to a very like a vetted private school because in the public school system.
Speaker 2:Actually, teachers will pimp out children, unfortunately, and so if a child ends up like failing on account of just whatever trauma that they're experiencing, the fact that they're having to like work and not focus on studies over there in Thailand, like, say, middle school is six to eighth grade and say they get up to eighth grade but they don't finish eighth grade, they actually have to go back to sixth grade and start all the way over again and so for.
Speaker 2:For rescuing these girls, it is a top priority that they go to a school where they're safe and they are actually guaranteed that they're actually gonna graduate and not just go. Well, you know what? I'm not going to continue with my education because even if I do go back to school, there's just the chance I'm going to get pimped out again and not even be able to finish school. So a lot of the girls that we do encounter, a lot of them do not have proper education.
Speaker 2:And there's the. It's sad to hear some of the older ones that they don't have dreams of looking to get out or do anything bigger with their lives. They're just kind of stuck.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I was going to say we may even talked about this in the last podcast, but just there's this lack of hope, like they can't even imagine a future that's different than their day to day reality. Now, something I'm kind of curious, just as you're explaining this, I think in my mind, when I think of people caught in human trafficking, sex trafficking, in my mind it sounds like they're completely inaccessible. So when we talk about these girls that you're ministering to, that you're getting into the ministry, is getting them into the sewing school or the cooking school? Are they? Is it like a they're rescuing them out of things, or is it like how exactly does it work?
Speaker 2:Yeah, great question.
Speaker 2:So what Beginnings Foundation does is so when you go in Thailand, again, human trafficking is illegal, illegal but what they'll do is bars will have these girls and they pay a bar fee to basically kind of hold their job there.
Speaker 2:But they're offering more than just bar services. You know, they're either paying off a debt for their family or their women over in Thailand are considered the breadwinners, like they're the ones that are actually bearing the financial burden versus men to provide for their families. And so when they're there, a lot of it is voluntarily, a lot of it's they're sold by family members again to pay off a debt. And then also in terms of accessibility, because, like they're just out there in the bars, they're working and so it's very easy to engage. The thing that's the big turnoff is it's like there's like they call them the mama sons, like basically they kind of oversee the girls and they're the bar managers. And so if they get wind of like people like, say me, that are trying to like have something of a ministry and I'm not showing any financial- You're not paying anything, I'm not paying like they'll shoe you away or they'll actually.
Speaker 2:I remember on the trip four years ago, one of our team members she like they pegged her, like right away and they took her photo and basically like plastered it like in the bar. So that basically anybody that was working knew not to ever talk to her. Like not that she would be back at that same bar if we were to go again.
Speaker 2:But it's very much like they are trying to protect their investment. So, again, there's accessibility, but you have to do it very strategically, in a way where it's like you're providing resources without creating attention from the mama sons going they're not paying, they're taking up these girls' times or these kids, you know, and we're trying to make money, so that's the only thing that we run into.
Speaker 1:So they're able to come and go freely from the establishment to some degree, but that's where their livelihood is tied up.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's where their livelihood is tied up, and because it's so embedded in their culture for these girls to actually be told you are responsible for your family and also they hold to like very Buddhist ideologies. So to them it's like okay, I need to work hard. Even though I'm in a job that is full of shame and guilt, I'm going to do it well.
Speaker 1:So that in my next life.
Speaker 2:I hopefully don't end up in this life and I better one.
Speaker 2:So there's this kind of like spiritual warfare, like Thailand is very spiritually dark I would say, probably one of the darkest countries that I've ever been to and how there is this sense in which of like no hope and it's like okay, so I'm stuck here, this is my option. I don't want to lose this option because I'm making money and I'm providing for my families, so, in a sense, like you know, they're able to go freely and the mama sons, like, have no fear of losing their people because they know it's been, so im embedded into them.
Speaker 2:Like you have no options, where are you gonna go?
Speaker 1:Right, what else are you gonna do your?
Speaker 2:freedom is literally taken Like, and you see it as well I'm able to go and as I please, I'm not enslaved by anything, and so it takes time to build relationship with these girls, to get them to understand no, you do have options, you do have rights.
Speaker 1:Mm-hmm.
Speaker 2:You know, like you don't have to live in this lifestyle anymore.
Speaker 1:It's almost like an invisible in imprisonment, yeah, just in the sense of like they're not literally behind bars and can't go anywhere, but they are imprisoned in a real sense, both psychologically, emotionally and financially.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and Beginnings Foundation is also like very strategic in terms of, like you know, the girls that they get and bring into the home. So, like the home in Bangkok and the home in Pattaya, they can take up somewhere between, I think, 12 to 16 girls. They never want to go kind of above that number because then it's like it's quantity versus quality and they want to make sure that they're giving the best quality care to the girls that they have rescued and taken care of, and also the fact that they're able to invest on a different level versus, like you know, a girl could be like well, you know what?
Speaker 2:this isn't what I signed up for. I'm just gonna leave, you know, and they're taking up space. Yeah another girl. That is like you know, I want this, I want a different life To move forward. Because they'll get that even with some of the girls that they bring in, where they show like I'm committed and then that again it's so embedded that they'll just go right back to the bar that they got because it's what's familiar, it's there's it's. It's a weird sense, but it feels safe.
Speaker 1:I was gonna say as the where they came to me was comfortable. Like it's not come, like we don't imagine it as comfortable, but there is some Comfort in. I know this. I know how this works. I know how to.
Speaker 1:I don't know if there's an upward mobility probably not guaranteed money yeah yeah, and if it's your responsibility, then yeah, you'd see, you can see how I would have this vicious cycle to it. So when you're over there, your, your team, in particular, I I'm not imagining, based on what you were just saying, that you're going out there and doing any sort of recruiting, if we want to use that kind of language.
Speaker 2:For yeah, so for this particular trip, every year beginnings foundation throws a big Christmas party and so our job, part of it, part of the trip is us getting cultural immersion, being educated about how human trafficking works in Thailand. We get kind of different tours of areas of the Red Light District of Pattaya and also just kind of learning kind of the importance of how and why beginnings does certain things in terms of their ministry work, because it's not like you just go in, like what we hear of, like oh, just go in and rescue those girls. You know, it's like no, it's like you could rescue a girl and she's just gonna go right back.
Speaker 1:It's not like a taken situation where somebody's been abducted and you're like kicking down doors and, yeah, taking them back to safety. It's.
Speaker 2:It's a lot more nuanced than that, for sure exactly so in this case we will go into the Red Light District, we will go into bars and kind of interact and slowly build like very surface level relationships with these girls over like a span of a couple days, and then we will actually go back and Send give them a personal invitation to come to the Christmas party that's being hosted by beginnings foundation.
Speaker 2:It'll be held at this really nice hotel where they're served an authentic Thai dinner, they're gifted with Christmas presents, they'll be games and they'll also hear the gospel in their own language and also be told about New beginnings foundation and the resources that beginnings foundation provides. Our role pretty much is because we look like tourists. We get to go in and basically kind of request Saying hey, can, can you guys come out? Versus like the locals going in, you know local.
Speaker 2:Yeah ministry where it's like there is this kind of like fine boundary line, of like you're taking my workers, you know, whereas we go in and say, hey, we've got this party and we would love for these girls to, like you know, participate, and again there's like is there?
Speaker 1:is there a language barrier?
Speaker 2:It's at some point like yeah, so like I mean honestly like for the most part, they all speak English fairly well. They're usually when, when we've gone in, like when I went four years ago, I think, I was surrounded by like maybe five of the girls, and Probably one or two of those girls could speak English. Really well and kind of was like the spokesperson for the group.
Speaker 2:But for the most part, I would say, based on other countries have been to like China and Korea. They speak English actually really well, but it's more so like when we try to get them to come and getting permission for them to come to the Christmas party. Usually there there will be Thai speaking people from beginnings foundation that will actually go and talk to the mama sons and that's not on us to do. Ours is basically building relationships with the girls To like calm and like hang out with us and stuff, and so it's a great opportunity.
Speaker 2:I think what's beautiful. It's like giving them a night off, like they're constantly working for fear of losing their job and to be able to say, hey, we're gonna Treat you with dignity and love. And it's just like the most beautiful sight to see Because, like they get excited, like to actually see Women who look so tired and worn out and then they come to a Christmas party. They're like the ones that we throw for them at beginnings and they just light up. It's like seeing, like, if you are so used to seeing your girl like getting ready for like father daughter dances or prom or Cattellion, whichever you know in terms of what makes a girl feel special.
Speaker 2:You see that on their faces. Like they like I'm being treated like a human being tonight and that's like yeah, I sobbed four years.
Speaker 1:Sounds very powerful given that context, especially if it's a you're going. You're going here post Thanksgiving. Right so you've got a few days there that you're gonna be building these relationships and then your over. Your trip overlaps December, so I'm guessing the Christmas parties maybe yeah, early December. Something like that. So it does feel like it's just the the. The whole shape of the trip is very it sounds like. It sounds like an emotional roller coaster. I'll be honest.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it is a bit of emotional roller coaster. I think now that, like I've been before, I'm prepared for it. I know like I'll probably have nights where, like, I will cry about it because it's it's hard to see.
Speaker 1:We can't not affect you.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I can't not affect you, but I think it won't Effect me as hard as it did the first time that I went, since I already know what to expect and I think that's where it's like I see myself on this trip of being somebody who has walked this road and being a support to the other women on the trip who have not gone and to actually like Grieve alongside with them.
Speaker 2:I teach some things that I've learned either through counseling or what God has taught me and to be able to say you're not alone in feeling this way. This is perfectly normal, but there is a way and pathway of moving forward so that you're not just sitting in your sorrows. Yeah, but actually pressing into going. I trust God, that God is going to make all of this right and he sees it, because when you go over there, you go where is God in the midst of this? And then it's like I see beginnings, foundation and I'm like, okay, God's here.
Speaker 1:Mm, hmm.
Speaker 2:God is working.
Speaker 1:This is like a lot of darkness early in the trip, and then you kind of start to see the light. Yes, make its way through towards the end, exactly. And so then is the Christmas party the peak? Yes, it is the peak, yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's the big highlight and I also love the fact that, like, beginnings foundation will actually go back. We'll actually go back and say hi and just kind of remind the girl, saying, hey, don't forget about beginnings foundation. We'll give them, like business cards and then new beginnings foundation will go back in, like, say like a few days later, and actually follow up with more of the girls that are available or who are working that day and stuff and say, hey, like we love having you at the Christmas party and so I love how it's.
Speaker 2:again, it shows like, hey, we're just playing a small part in kind of ministering and giving a different face of the tourist, typical tourist and saying hey, there are people like halfway across the world that actually care about you.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:And so that is people just come to Gawk and make you feel guilt and shame.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:And to see that new beginnings foundation then continues follow up. It's not just a hey, you heard the gospel and your life has been transformed because you raised your hand after you know. We said do you accept Jesus? It's like no. There is consistent follow up with these girls, which I absolutely love.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and that's really important because it's not.
Speaker 1:We don't necessarily know all of our listeners backgrounds with mission trips, but, you know, growing up in youth group in the nineties, it's like, yeah, the sort of stereotypical mission trip is you go to some foreign country, you do some door to door evangelism, pass out tracks, share things. Maybe there's a big thing at the end, maybe not, but it does feel like, yeah, there's no follow up. And you know, even if I had, like really good conversation with someone, I don't have a way to follow up with them. Maybe the church there can, but it's like I just don't. I just don't really know. I don't know if it made a difference, I don't know if it was had any sort of lasting impact, but it sounds like this they have a very well built out structure and system for we're doing a very specific thing that's ministering to these girls that are caught up in the sex trade and you're coming in from the US to help us, help them do what they're trying to do, and then they're still working the ministry after you leave.
Speaker 2:Exactly, yeah, and it's just, and it's also exciting to even see that some of the workers are like I wouldn't call them interns, but kind of like the helpers they were formerly trafficked themselves. So they know how to talk to these girls and actually say, look, I'm a result of this ministry or this organization.
Speaker 1:It works Like you can trust. It Captures the imagination. It could be the start of hope.
Speaker 2:Because they see them. They see like they're not dolled up in tons of makeup, they're going to school. They look healthy, like they're not missing out on meals. And they actually see that they actually have purpose and that they don't have to wait until their second life to get that purpose. I think that's also what's exciting, because I couldn't give them that purpose, I couldn't give them the example of what it looks like.
Speaker 1:You can't say look at me, and it's like that's not going to work.
Speaker 2:So it's like I love the fact that New Beginnings Foundation really focuses on saying hey, you're here to help and to learn, but the real work is done by us, and that's why we need financial support.
Speaker 2:so that we can hire more Thai Christians to invest in this ministry, or to keep the school going or to be able to like if, in the event of a pandemic happens, we can actually buy food to like cook meals for people that are not unable to work. So it was. I would say that was like. Really cool was to see that Beginnings Foundation didn't quit when the pandemic hit.
Speaker 1:Yeah, because I remember you and I have had conversations in passing, I think you know over the last several months, where you talked about like, yeah, thailand's not open yet, so that's can't go back there. The restrictions are keeping people out. It seemed like it was longer, well longer than Uganda, well longer than some of the other countries. We can think of reasons why that might be, but it's encouraging to hear that it's open. They're still doing what they're doing, and then you're heading here in like three weeks, three and a half weeks.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's coming up, yeah.
Speaker 1:Any final just as we're kind of wrapping up any final things you want to share with people about your trip that we haven't already touched on or talked about?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think one thing that's really important and I think in, especially in our culture today, my like kind of I've been exposed to like trans communities and stuff from a Western perspective. There is a very specific trans community within human trafficking in Thailand and it's really sad, like it's. Like, you know, everyone thinks of like oh, this is kind of like a Western thing that's popped up and it's like no, like this is all over and every country has its own little thing of how they visualize it. In Thailand, so they have these young men who with feminine features and they're called lady boys and basically and I was so basically what happens? You know, like, as I mentioned, women are seen as kind of the financial providers versus men. So what do you do when you don't have any daughters that can go out and work? You find the most feminist or feminist, sorry, most feminine looking boy that can pass off as a girl and so you take that, so they would take them to their local temple priest or their Buddhist temple.
Speaker 2:And basically what they would do is pray a female ancestor spirit into their male child and say you are now a woman now. So basically it's not uncommon for these lady boys to get surgeries to look a certain way, very accessible but also expensive, you know. So for the most part a lot of them haven't even gone through like transitional surgeries like we're hearing being fought for now here in the Western world.
Speaker 2:But to actually see these young boys being stripped of who God has made them to be. So I think it's also important to speak to human trafficking doesn't just affect women it affects men too.
Speaker 2:So most people don't want to hear that conversation, and so I think that's really important to be praying as we encounter and praying as we interact with some of these lady boys, because for some of them, they feel like they feel that their lives are more on the line because of who they are and if they get a customer, and that customer all of a sudden is like this is not what I expected.
Speaker 2:They actually get physically assaulted, more so than the girls, and so, yeah, I just want to speak to that so that we can actually be praying for Thailand, because I think this speaks to like a spiritual darkness. Again, that's over there that you're praying an ancestor into your child's body and thinks, oh, now they're a girl and how that confuses.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I mean, the transgenderism conversation is complex anyways, but in this case we're talking about and what sounds like forced transgenderism. It's not like me finding who I am is really this on the inside, it's someone else speaking it over me and then even adding this religious dimension to it, where we're praying in an ancestor, and then now it's like that's a done deal. Now this is your life, whether you wanted it, like it or not.
Speaker 2:Yeah, exactly, and so I'm really looking forward to. There's a coffee shop actually over there that was started by a Christian woman and she actually like took in, like like helped get the lady boys some of the lady boys out of human trafficking, and so they work at the coffee shop and you can see like there's remnants of that. They're trying to like peel back like this old, ancient, religious way and how they're trying to get back to who it is that God has created them to be. It's a beautiful coffee shop, beautiful people. So I am looking forward to the possibility of getting to check in on that ministry and seeing how they're doing and if they're still in business too.
Speaker 2:So, yeah, I'm excited about catching up with the team at New Beginnings. I haven't seen them in four years and I've already been like connecting with some of them, like be a messaging internet's great for this kind of situation, hearing them excited, and one of the girls who was rescued and she worked for Beginnings Foundation for a while she's no longer there, but I told her I'm coming back and she said she goes. Oh, let me know if you have a break I'll come and see you. And she goes. I'm so glad you're keeping your promise of four years ago that you said you're coming back and, like she remembered four years ago that I said I would come back and I felt so bad each year when I couldn't come.
Speaker 2:The fact that it meant a lot to her for me to make that promise and for her to bring it up four years later saying you kept your promise. Thank you.
Speaker 1:Yeah, wow, yeah, cause I did you remember your promise.
Speaker 2:Yes, I remember my promise, but I was like going no, she's got so much going on and like you know all the work that they were doing over there. It's like I'm going, you know, like there are some things that, like you know, I forget, and it's like for her to like for me to remember, but also for her to remember spoke volumes that when you make promises to these people like they, actually, because of their so without hope, even a glimpse of hope, they cling to that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, when I would. I wonder if, to some extent, it's a life changing or a life altering, however you want to think of it encounter for both of you, cause it's so out of the ordinary for them to interact with a Westerner coming over whose patient kind is not there for their services, and for you to have that experience of being in that new context, like it's not your ordinary world, so it's like it forms a deep impression on both of you.
Speaker 2:I wasn't questioning your integrity, but remembering your promise, I was just like.
Speaker 1:I've had the experience where people have been like oh yeah, I remember five years ago you said Blaine, and I was like I don't remember saying it like, but this was a different situation, for sure.
Speaker 2:But yeah, I would also say, be another thing, just, and this will be the last thing, but be in prayer for one of our team members. She's Thai herself. Her mother immigrated to the States when she was 14 years old, realizing like a life in Thailand is not what she desired for her future children. Even Her mom is very much aware of what goes on in Thailand and it's like going no, this is not a life for me and not a life for my future family, and so I think there's gonna be some hard realities for her being Thai, and I felt it too like, even though I'm not Thai, I'm Korean but to see women that look like me enslaved, and then you can almost feel this kind of survivor's guilt and there's almost kind of a.
Speaker 2:There's two different types of survivor's guilt. There's a survivor's guilt where you're actually seeing people that look like you, that run within kind of the same ethnic realm, and you're like, why me? And then, you get other people, that would say white people, for example, of going. I am very privileged. But also there are white women in Europe and here in the US that have easily just had it as hard and being trafficked.
Speaker 2:We just see it very differently in the West versus when you go to a country like Thailand or even, say, Amsterdam, and it's right up in your face like there's no one's hiding it you know, Versus, say, here in the US, where it is more kind of this like trying to hide.
Speaker 1:It's an after dark sort of thing. It's not a broad daylight activity.
Speaker 2:Exactly so. Keep her in your prayers for her and I know that she's gonna be experiencing kind of similar to what I experienced, and I've already seen how God is using me and actually providing the opportunity to go on this trip to actually be an encouragement to her, because I think there is a sense in which where you see kind of your own kind going through something and you feel absolutely helpless and going what more can I do?
Speaker 1:Yeah well, we will definitely keep that in prayer, and your whole trip as well in prayer, and we will look forward to hearing from you when you get back. I'm sure you'll have another whole set of stories, just like you did four years ago and just like you did in Uganda earlier this year.
Speaker 2:Absolutely, and people can check out my giving page to learn more and get more details about Beginnings Foundation and I think there's like a few other details about the Christmas party as well things that they can be praying over.
Speaker 1:Gotcha, so we'll make sure we've got that in the showdowns as well. Well, grace, I've enjoyed finding out a little bit more about your trip. I feel like I have a really clear this is what's happening later this month, and so I hope everything goes well.
Speaker 2:Awesome. Thank you so much ço.