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The NewCity Orlando All of Life Podcast
The All of Life podcast, hosted by Nate Claiborne, provides weekly episodes that help further our mission to call, form, and send disciple-makers. At NewCity, we want to see Orlando flourish by filling it with people who say "Follow me as I follow Jesus in all of life."
The NewCity Orlando All of Life Podcast
The Hidden Power of Fasting with Sarah Williamson
In this episode, Senior Pastor Damein Schitter interviews Sarah Williamson about her practice of fasting. Sarah shares her initial experience with fasting in college, where it was primarily seen as a special measure for significant spiritual needs. Her perspective shifted when she began practicing regular fasting as part of her church community's "common rhythm," transitioning it from an occasional to a habitual spiritual discipline. Initially, fasting provided Sarah with profound spiritual encounters, described as moments where she felt deeply connected to God's love and presence. Over time, this experience shifted to a sense of "simulated suffering" that fosters deeper dependence on God, preventing spiritual complacency.
Sarah also emphasizes the importance of communal fasting, describing how fasting regularly with her church community deepened relationships and mutual dependence. Practically, she details her approach, typically fasting once a week from dinner to dinner, acknowledging challenges such as balancing fasting with family responsibilities and daily tasks. Sarah concludes by encouraging listeners, even if hesitant, to begin fasting in small, faith-driven steps, as a pathway to greater intimacy with Jesus, despite its initial discomfort or confusion.
Sarah, it's great to be with you. Thank you, yes, and today we're talking about everyone's probably most misunderstood Christian practice.
Speaker 2:Maybe Could be.
Speaker 1:And that is fasting. And so I'm curious for you what first led you to explore the practice of fasting?
Speaker 2:Yeah, so when I was in college I was involved in a campus ministry and there were some upperclassmen there who were into fasting for big things, and so it seemed I mean, that seemed logical to me when you have something like really big you really got to get serious, and so you fast, and so that was my introduction into fasting. And it wasn't until New City started the common rhythm that I was introduced to regular, habitual fasting.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so before that did you have some type of practice for the larger things in your life, or that's just what you had seen?
Speaker 2:before. Well, I mean. So fasting is not typically something that I get super eager to do, so I would use it as a like. We got to bring out the big guns.
Speaker 1:Yeah right.
Speaker 2:So that's, I would fast for a 24 hour period, or I think once or twice I might have done 48 hours.
Speaker 1:Okay.
Speaker 2:And then. But that was it, and then that was. You know, in college I had more time and more energy. I had more time and more energy, and then I think that practice kind of waned as I got married, got kids all that kind of stuff.
Speaker 1:Yeah Well, actually let's pick up on that, Just this idea of how your practice of fasting has changed and evolved over time.
Speaker 2:Okay. So yeah, like I said, I started out just viewing fasting as something that to me and again I still don't feel like I understand fasting. It seems unusual and mysterious and I believe in it because Jesus fasted and instructs us to fast, but I don't really understand what it does or how it works. So my fasting which is kind of like a best guess of like I think this is what, like I have a really significant issue in my life and I think fasting will maybe open some spiritual doors that just regular prayer might not do.
Speaker 2:So then New City started the Common Rhythm and I had not thought about fasting on a regular basis. That would not be an idea that I would come up with on my own. But again, I really do believe in fasting. So I started doing it and what was interesting is for, again, none of fasting makes sense to me. But when I first started fasting on a regular basis, I had this experience and I've talked to other people, it's not exclusive to me. I had this experience and I've talked to other people and it's not exclusive to me. I had this experience where I felt like heaven had opened up and there was like a ray of God's goodness and beauty and love just being poured into my heart, and it was so significant that I started being excited about fasting on a weekly basis because of that experience.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:It was so enjoyable and then, for whatever reason, over time that faded and so then fasting became more of just something that I did, again out of faith and a habit, and I kind of have grown to. In my current season I see fasting as like simulated suffering. So it's something that I do that is very physically unpleasant and I don't enjoy at all, but it requires me to ask God for help, especially during my workday or when I have to be patient with my kids or when I need my brain to be at its peak, and none of those things are easy to do when I'm fasting. So really requiring me to ask Jesus for help and also I feel like it's something that kind of maybe prevents slide. So I'm in a season right now where it's easy to kind of just go through my life and I've kind of reached a rhythm where I've got this. So I feel like fasting and the other spiritual disciplines help keep me grounded in Jesus in a way that prevent me from just drifting off into even greater self-sufficiency than I would have otherwise.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's so good. So at the beginning I almost experienced in the best way bookends there. So you started by saying that you view fasting as a stimulated form of suffering, which I would imagine some people might be hearing that and being like, well, that's cool that you're into that.
Speaker 2:but I'm not into that.
Speaker 1:But then, as you continue to elaborate on what that means and how it actually functions in your life, you got down to really it's not about the suffering, it's about the increased dependence upon Jesus and connection with him.
Speaker 1:And there is this way in which you've experienced. It sounds like and me too, and I think most of us listening to this podcast that we have figured out life enough to be able to get by without a deep sense of dependence, which is actually where true life is. And the most counterintuitive thing that fasting does, and maybe always has done, is that it short circuits that proclivity of of the flesh to depend on itself.
Speaker 2:Yes, and so, as you mentioned, it's not suffering for suffering's sake. I see it as a protective measure. It keeps me safe because my own self-sufficiency is dangerous.
Speaker 1:Yeah, wow. So what is the hardest part about fasting been for you.
Speaker 2:I would say, well, I did not realize. I really honestly had no clue until I did this on a regular, continued basis. I had no idea how often I used food and drink to make me happy. And I'm not. I wouldn't consider myself to be like a food addicted person, or even a foodie really, but if I have to do a task that I find unpleasant, I have developed habits of saying, well, I'm going to make myself a latte and I'll have my latte, and then I can get on with XYZ unpleasant product, a project, and so I can't do that when I'm fasting. And then the other thing that has been difficult is being not hangry, so like being patient with my kids or my husband, because those are the people that I see at the end of my day when I'm kind of at the peak of the fast, and so that's when it's the hardest.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, no doubt about that. It might be one thing if you could sort of go into your inner castle and get through it but to have to interact and continue to live your life and pour out in the ways that are required of you and your vocation, yeah, life and pour out in the ways that are required of you and your vocation. Yeah, that really, I mean it. It almost adds another layer of of the power of it, right.
Speaker 2:Right and I. I work in a college dining hall, so I'm surrounded by food and food smells and people eating all day long, so man yeah. I'd love to go into a castle, a cave castle, anywhere but this.
Speaker 1:Okay, wow, that's fascinating, truly. I mean, there's so many things, okay. So I want to ask more questions as it relates to what fasting has been cultivating in you and that's what we've been talking about. But one thing I don't want to skip over for some of those people out there who what they need in this podcast is a little bit of clarity on what it actually looks like, so maybe some of the logistics. So for you, when do you fast, typically, when does it start, when does it end? Those types of things. I'd love for you to take a minute to speak to that.
Speaker 2:Well, I mean theoretically, I try to do a 24-hour fast, but it really doesn't. It's not really a full 24 hours. I eat dinner and that might end anytime between 6.30 and 7 on a regular day, and then I don't eat after that. And then my goal would be to make it until 5 pm the next day, because that's when I start making dinner and I have not yet become sanctified enough to where I can make dinner while I'm fasting. At that point I'm like I have to have something.
Speaker 1:Yes, yes, so for me that's what it looks like, that's great. Yeah, I mean, so do you have a regular day that you fast? Yes, for me that's what it looks like, that's great.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean. So, do you have a regular day that you fast? Yes, yes, I actually fast with my circle one day a week, and that's been really helpful.
Speaker 1:Oh, that's really great. I want to come right back to that fasting in community and I'll start with a quick story of my own on that. But what I would say is, as I've talked to people who have been practicing the common rhythm, and as we say, that's really the word practicing and sometimes we fail, sometimes we don't, but we never get it right. So we're practicing the common rhythm. As I've talked to people, even people who consider themselves not structured, like hey, I'm not a very structured person as it relates to fasting, I think, to find some type of consistency. It's been this is the day I fast, this is when I start. So I've talked to some people actually it's lunch to lunch. Others, like, what I do is what you do. It's like I eat dinner and then I don't eat until the next day at dinnertime, which is 24 hours, although we don't think about that because we sleep at night, right, which is 24 hours, although we don't think about that because we sleep at night, right, but historically that's been a very common way actually to fast.
Speaker 1:People who fast regularly, like the common rhythm, suggest that we can.
Speaker 1:So that would be my suggestion to those who are listening is do what you've done, which is choose a consistent time a day and then decide when is it going to start and when is it going to end, and begin in that way, and one of the things that I don't know if this is part of your story, but there are some people who they start by fasting a meal, which is great. So, rather than 24 hours, they may say I'm going to fast from lunch today, or I'm going to fast from breakfast, or something like that lunch today, or I'm going to fast from breakfast, or something like that. I think that the key is, the goal is what you described, which is there are ancillary benefits right, I think, like some people would say, my mind, although toward the end of the fast it gets a little rough, but, yeah, I feel like my mind is clear during the day and all those things are wonderful. But the goal is to practice dependence, to practice inflicted suffering, as you said, to experience more dependence.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I want to grow in my ability to abide in Jesus and I find that difficult because I get distracted and I forget about Jesus functionally through most of my day and fasting interrupts my thoughts because my stomach is crying.
Speaker 1:Yes, that's right, totally All right. Well, let me come back to where I said I wanted to, and that is community fasting in community. But one of my favorite seasons of fasting in the common rhythm was a season of about three months long when I was auditing a class with some other pastors at RTS and we, after that class, would go feast together. And so I paired two practices together fasting and then feasting.
Speaker 2:So I would?
Speaker 1:yeah, so I would. I think the class was on a Tuesday and I would eat dinner on Monday night and then I would fast until dinner because the class was over at 430, and then we would drive and we would go eat together and it was just this wonderful experience and even though I wasn't fasting with them, I was, they knew I was fasting and there was this. It really was. Community was involved because they knew that they were a significant part of these two practices coming together and I remember that as a really sweet thing. And so you had mentioned that you fast with your circle. So I'd love for you to talk about how that has maybe thickened or deepened your experience, or added to just tell us a little bit about that.
Speaker 2:Um, well, it's been very helpful, um, because so our circle will. Um, the day before our scheduled fast, we will send out prayer requests to each other OK. And so then we know that we're all fasting together, but we're also praying for each other. So there are women who are giving up their food and praying for me. So you better believe I'm not going to skimp out on this. So you better believe. I'm not going to skimp out on this, so it's just been another thing that's been helpful, like if I feel tempted to skip a week.
Speaker 2:I would feel guilty because of the community aspect, and then we can also laugh about how we're so hungry.
Speaker 1:Yes, but yeah, I feel like doing it in community. We I feel like, as you said, not this thing where we do something hard for the mere sake of doing something hard, which isn't always bad, but that's just not what this is. This is a we're doing something hard together because we're leaning into mutual dependence upon one another, but ultimately, dependence upon the Lord.
Speaker 2:There's something really.
Speaker 1:I mean, there's something so rich and beautiful about that and it just dawns on me that, in the same way that it's true that we always should be dependent we all, really we always are dependent on the Lord we should be growing in our awareness and practice of dependence. As you said, abiding, there's also the sense of where we need each other. We're interdependent, and so fasting sort of the way in which you guys are practicing it together, doesn't only heighten your awareness of your stomach telling your brain oh I'm dependent on the Lord as my body's dependent on food, which is part of what fasting trains us to do. But you guys have done in such a way where doing it together has heightened your sense of true interdependence, which is what the church is.
Speaker 2:Yes, and deepened our love for each other.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so good. So you said you spoke to this already earlier, but I want to come back to it and see if there's anything else you'd like to say, and that is how has this practice of fasting shaped your relationship with Jesus or deepened it in any way?
Speaker 2:Mm-hmm. Well, I mean, as I mentioned, I feel like fasting is a protective measure that helps keep me closer to Jesus, probably in ways that I don't even know about. You know, I don't know where I would be had I chosen not to do this. All I know is where I am, but I believe that God is at work in that. But also, I have had not a lot, but I have had experiences on my fasting days, like one in particular where I was in a season one of my kids was in a super, super difficult spot and I was terrified and kind of walking through a season of low-lying terror for this child.
Speaker 2:And one day was fasting and not we were just spending time together. It was like our family day. So I wasn't like in prayer or anything. We were actually out on the lake and I felt like out of nowhere, the Spirit said to me no matter what happens to your kids, you will be okay, and although I at the time would have wanted God to tell me like this child will be okay, or this situation will be okay, but what I felt was okay.
Speaker 2:So, first of all, god notices my situation enough to speak to me personally about it and so that alone I feel like that will stay with me for the rest of my life. Stay with me for the rest of my life, just that knowledge that God saw and he felt it worth His time to speak to me. But also it was really helpful to know that you know I have multiple children. I have a husband. I can't afford to fall apart if one child is going down.
Speaker 2:So, it was really helpful to know, like, okay, no matter what's going on, god's going to take care of me, I'm going to be okay and I'm going to be able to take care of the people that I need to take care of. So I found that really helpful and I really believe that that was a function of my fasting and and something that I can even now. I mean, this was a couple years ago, but I can look back on it now with the same like I can see where I was, I can remember how I can remember the feelings of the fear and the feeling of the awe and um. And you know, take that and apply it to other situations that I'm going to experience.
Speaker 1:Yeah, wow, that's so good. I appreciate you sharing that story. All right. So when I look at the some of the questions that I had had beforehand and where we are now, I've loved this conversation. I think that the way I've experienced it and I think others will experience it, will be as one of encouragement, as a reminder that this practice Well, actually I'll repeat something you said because I want to highlight it.
Speaker 2:Okay.
Speaker 1:As it relates to encouragement, I think that many people, when they choose to engage something challenging a spiritual discipline that's challenging there is at first a very quick reward, right, you said like at first I just felt like, oh man, the heavens have opened up and I've experienced that in my own ways. I think some people it could be something as simple as they decide. You know what I really. It's important. I'm committed to being in the word and prayer daily and they choose a time and they choose a plan and then for the first week or two or day or three, whatever it is, they experience deep communion with God and it's really powerful and it's real. And then it stops feeling that way and I know in my life and I'm sure other people experience this, you experience this.
Speaker 1:There are times when, when it stops feeling that way, we stop doing it. But one of the things that's interesting is that when you talked about the evolution of your experience of fasting, that you have learned now, because you haven't arrived, but you've gone through the wall, metaphorically, several times that you, I think I don't mean to put words in your mouth, but it's like, no, this is good, this is worth it. It doesn't feel that way every day or every week when I do it, but it's worth it. So I'd love for you to put that in your own words, like how would you encourage someone who's listening to this podcast? You could think about it in encouragement, you could give practical advice, but thinking about someone who may be hesitant or struggling to start fasting, or maybe even cynical in the sense of I've tried this before and I couldn't stick with it, but what advice would you give from your perspective?
Speaker 2:Yeah, well, I agree with everything that you said, and I think I mean just as a means of encouragement. I think that Jesus is merciful and he's not hating on us if we don't fast.
Speaker 1:Right.
Speaker 2:But I also think there's so much to Jesus that we can experience, to Jesus that we can experience, and I'm interested in finding out what that is. And so Jesus fasted Again, I mentioned I find fasting confusing, but Jesus fasted and I want to be more like Jesus, so I want to do things that he did, and I think it is hard and it's actually gotten easier for me from a physical standpoint, and I think there's nothing wrong with saying well, I'm just going to start by delaying my lunch for an hour, just like really even just micro, micro, small stages you know, just like really even just micro, micro, small stages that I think, done in faith, jesus loves and will bless, and I think that my fasting journey is obviously it's not over.
Speaker 2:I think I'm going to experience other stages. I don't know what they would look like, but I think that none of the no amount of fasting goes to waste.
Speaker 1:So that's powerful, that's a great word. Well, sarah, thank you for telling your story and encouraging me and others who listen on the richness of fasting. Thank you.
